After speaking with President Mark Ivins and the High Council tonight, it became very clear to me that it was a kangaroo court. i thought every state had their own rules as to what constituted a common law marriage, if they awknowledged them at all. I have seen hats but no cattle. An in-depth look at every individual excommunicated by Jesus Christ in scripture, High-profile excommunications may harm Mormon retention rates in the long run. President Ivins, please help me to understand exactly what wrongdoing I'm being charged with here. The real question here is if the church really believes in and is confident in its foundational truth claims to welcome hard investigation and scrutiny. I need to communicate via email as it's easier for me than over the phone (I'm still hard of hearing and is ever brought to my attention that there are any inaccuracies in the CES Letter or on my website, I am totally and completely agreeable and committed to For more information and developments on this story, see http://cesletter.org. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. bunnzy having been put on probation and disfellowshipped (yes I was a bad girl) I was put on probation through talking with my bishop at the time, I couldn't partake of the sacrament, say prayers, giv. For the purpose of expediting this process my personal information is as follows: I have given this matter considerable thought. A main theme of the letter is the belief of Runnells that the church knew unflattering aspects about its history but deliberately hid or misrepresented them. Laura Pitkin, post-script to a letter from Vilate Kimball to Heber C. Kimball, July 18, 1840, cited in Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter, Martin Harris: Uncompromising Witness of the Book of Mormon (Provo, UT: BYU Studies, 2018), 315. So the church doesn't believe in free agency. court letter. Ivins owed Runnells the courtesy and decency to give him March 15th due to his family situation. All of these recordings and documentations are listed below and are released to the public. FairMormon Prior to sending my 80 page letter to the CES Director, I shared the letter with folks on Facebook and Reddit for editing and feedback purposes in my Also note that, after Runnells' strong protest to Ivins, this letter moves away from "conduct unbecoming a member" and other vague insinuations to simply "apostasy". There is no middle ground. 8:54. This pattern of applying 20th century censorship and control tactics in a 21st century social media connected world is This is great news as Elder Ballard has just given his apostolic permission to members, including me, to be more open about and discuss the problematic Sporting a comb-over, wearing Brut aftershave, or getting caught reading a copy of Dialogue during General Conference. I'm a firm believer in free agency and individual freedom. Please let me know if there is anything I or other members of the stake can do to assist you and your family during this challenging time. I never heard back from him again. Joseph Fielding Smith, that Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead people and that he should be exposed, his claims should be Back row: Andy Parker. I Truth in Church History. An Eagle Scout, Returned Missionary, BYU alumnus, Jeremy was married in the San Diego Temple with expectations and plans of living Mormonism for the rest of his life. Runnells receives a text message from Ivins' secretary asking if Runnells could come in to meet with Ivins in his church office in two days (January 26, I have also recently had ear surgery that I am still assist, please let me know. No answersjust threats of excommunication. Your generous donations are tax deductible and will go a long way in helping us to continue to help the honest-in-heart seekers. The term also provides us an apt visual for what went down on Sunday evening, when the witnesses for Natashas defense werent even allowed into the church building. You did not have to retrospectively create a false story about angelic visitors to possess that power it was there all along, but the church blinded you to it. It is my position that if the Church seeks to remove my membership, it is committing a grotesque injustice by punishing me for seeking and sharing the Yesterday's historians and members with questions have been disciplined and excommunicated on accusations that they were "acting in opposition to the - Elder Hugh B. If you are sincere in your expressed desire to keep your Church membership and to explore answers to your First sold to Steven Christensen, a Mormon bishop and document collector (whom Hofmann would later kill with a bomb in 1985), the "salamander letter" purports to be written by Martin Harris. Not a single word from President Ivins has been edited, censored, removed or altered in any way. Again, it is not me or the CES Letter itself that causes people to leave, if they do, but rather the facts and information verified by the church's own that all of the claims made above by its leaders along with Ballard's "master the essays" are ultimately just empty words. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived." The. It is all recorded and documented for you to see for yourself. essays and other LDS approved sources that test and challenge testimonies. It contains the summons letter from William H. Reeder Jr., the president of the New England Mission, for her to appear before the bishop's court and his cryptic, one-line excommunication proclamation 26 days later. Just a quick thought on excommunication. ", "I'm not discrediting the church. new window while listening to the audio recording on this page. You might not understand how deep the wound cuts. Runnells held a Press Conference on February 10, 2016 to publicly discuss his Stake President's actions. Runnells publicly announces the latest updates (screenshot): Many of you have emailed me or contacted me to ask for an update on the LDS Church's Excommunication attempts against me. The letter, dated February 9, confirms that Dehlin has been excommunicated on the charge of apostasy -- specifically for refusing to renounce teachings disputing the divinity of God and Jesus Christ, the credibility of the Book of Mormon, and the idea that the LDS church is the "true Church." abilities and willingness to write your thoughts. what you have said and done has done just that. In my letter that I handed to you in the beginning of our November 2, 2014 meeting, I wrote: "To the best of my knowledge, everything posted in the CES Letter and on my website is completely accurate and solidly based in Church history. No trouble or expense at all. all over again. Smith and LDS origins, doctrine, and history and after years of silence from the CES Director and leaders of the church (including a Church Historian and "okay" and the phone call was over. To excommunicate me is an atrocious grotesque injustice. I have approached other Church leaders for official answers. CES Letter has been downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and over 12,000 LDS Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter. commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. Church leaders became aware that Lyman was having an affair with a woman he had been given to counsel and excommunicated him for unlawful cohabitation. So, two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled. It was a Mormonism that claimed the FairMormon, Mormon Interpreter and other Mormon organizations understand and get this, which is exactly why they also accept donations as refuses to stand behind. goal has been to get official answers from the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. individual who is a party to conversations to record and disclose the content of said conversations. to believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really . along with not including the church's essays. Ivins replies back to Runnells @ 6:15pm (screenshot): Bro. Regarding my membership in the Church and feelings regarding its leaders: My membership in the Church is valuable and important to me. Among the more interesting items in the collection is a lecture she gave in 1970 titled "Can We Manipulate the Past?" A total time span of a year and a half. How the Mormon Church Punishes Dissenters. The Church's Race and the Priesthood, Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo, Book of Mormon Translation, First Vision Accounts, and Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essays not only are in open opposition to Joseph Smith and church leaders, they directly contradict carefully correlated church narratives taught to generations of Latter-day Saints. my letter. michael b rush excommunicated. Instead of punishing me and hoping I'll go away with my questions, why won't you just answer them? The 2nd question I asked you is: If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? You are asking me to limit and to obstruct not just my own free agency but the free agency of members and investigators of the church who also share the days later stating that a court was being held against me because of "conduct unbecoming a member." you told me in our last meeting that you thought I'm a good man. In fact, I credit FairMormon for helping to make Having laid out these important foundational points, I will now directly answer your questions: You ask: "What are you trying to accomplish in posting your doctrinal concerns across the internet.". The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. This is Runnells' and Ivins' second meeting. Below the presidency is the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, the church's second-highest governing body that travels across the world to address and advise local fellowships. It will be assumed that sin led to your departure. the blessings of the Temple because of what the Race and the Priesthood I do not regularly attend Sunday services but my wife and children do still attend. Fear will not stifle thought. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Swears.). The only power that the church has is the power you give them. Ivins attempts to take their conversation away from light of transparency to dark of secrecy, Ivins attempts to censor Runnells and CES Letter by demanding censorship and removal from Mormon Marketplace of Information, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. simply the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. You tried to hold a court on me on Now that they've used up their leverage they held against you as an idle threat, you are free to roar like you've never roared before!!!!! marketplace of information. All I've wanted was to resolve my doubts and concerns about the discrepancies of what I was The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. How to not apostatize from the LDS church By Sam Pinson. I am glad to hear that, although you need to I'm pleased that I and everyone else involved, including the high council, will be able to spend time with our Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. [1][2] Runnells grew up as a seventh-generation member of the LDS Church with pioneer ancestry. Runnells received a physical April 7, 2016 letter delivered by the Stake Clerk from President Ivins announcing a Disciplinary Court against Runnells to be When the essays were released, I made sure to include them so that CES Letter readers could read the church's essays. being disciplined for moral failings (i.e. Why do they deserve our blind loyalty and unquestioning obedience? I am morally clean, honest with my fellow men and I have a rebuttals and defenses against their attacks on my personal name and integrity as well as their false claims. Like other unofficial verified truth. Fortunately, Elder M. Russell Ballard gave a recent talk to the Church Educational System this Regardless, I wish to express gratitude to President Ivins for his offer to hold an informal meeting in March before any disciplinary court to explain to Do what is right and the consequence is excommunication. action is needed or necessary. Smith and the real origins and history of Mormonism. Church members can be excommunicated if they are involved in gross iniquity. It was cold. Runnells did not hear back again from President Ivins until January 25, 2016 when Ivins telephoned Runnells to inform him of his intention to challenge Runnells' LDS Church membership. without challenge or to defend myself. A person who is excommunicated is no longer a member of the Church. history. Brigham Young was wrong about Blood Atonement. an organization withholds, obstructs, inhibits, and censors information - positive or negative - from its members. There will still be work to be done in clearing out the cobwebs of control from your mind but that theme is the most empowering one upon which to do so. note where you expressed to me that you thought I was a good man and that you wanted to help me. I also understand that I will be "readmitted to the church by baptism only after a thorough interview.". Those who are excommunicated can return and have their Church membership readmitted through the process of repentance and baptism . I hereby withdraw my consent to As current Church Historian Steven Snow states above, the church followed and continues to follow a pattern of keeping records closed and not giving Cherish your doubts. letter. "After carefully and prayerfully considering this matter," the letter states, "it was the decision of the council to withdraw your church membership in response to conduct contrary to the law and. While in the end the printed statements of three witnesses who had written their remarks beforehand were taken into the building, there was no oral testimony, so the voices of several others were shut out entirely. Also is there a time frame, is there follow up required? Take notice of the wording that Ivins used against me and integrity. disciplinary council scheduled for March 20th 2016 is cancelled. work is a fraud. My goal is to defend my name and integrity from Make the church admit that this is a central issue. We were five docile women standing there in our Sunday dress. Total makes the presence of an interpreter a concern. This was the catalyst and beginning of the CES Letter But now, after the press release, press conference, media interviews and tremendous reaction/response on social media, he is willing to move it back to the The church released its very disturbing and problematic Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay Additionally, I have asked to remain on the claims, you and the church are actively seeking to censor, silence, and kill the messenger rather than address the message. Its like even the witnesses were pre-excommunicated out of communication, out of sight, out of the protection of the Church Handbook. - President J. Reuben Clark, Truth is unafraid of light, questioning, investigation, and scrutiny. If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? I no longer have access to the CHI, so I'm going from memory here a little bit, but probation is really up to the discretion of the Bishop as to the DOs and DON'Ts. He admitted to his SP his past deeds. Upon re-reading Ivins email, Runnells sees that it's not clear as to whether the March 15, 2016 meeting is still on. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Display as a link instead, Among the main questions Ivins consistently and repeatedly refused to answer are: On April 8, 2016, Runnells received a letter from Ivins informing him that there will be a disciplinary council held against Runnells on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 6:00 pm Mountain Time. They were wrong about Mark Hofmann's fraud and forgeries. Even with cochlear implants, Jeremy is legally deaf. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. I just wanted the truth. answers. Mormon blogger and podcaster John Dehlin, who was excommunicated for apostasy from the LDS Church on Feb. 9, has filed an appeal to the faith's governing First Presidency, claiming the action was "a flawed and unfair process." In a Tuesday letter, Dehlin says that evidence his local Mormon leaders used to justify the excommunication namely . But Lyman remained with his wife, Amy Brown Lyman, the general president of an LDS women's society, and was rebaptized in 1954, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. During these discussions Runnells sought answers for In his letter, Meeks alluded to the LDS "concept of the Negro and his position as to the Priesthood" as well as inquiring about the presence of any "pure white blood" among the Cubans and commenting on the "ignorance and superstition" of the people there. Instead of a meeting between us on I'm somewhat confused and surprised by this news, however, because President Ivins and I had originally agreed upon a March date to accommodate my began as a letter Mr. Runnells wrote to an LDS religious instructor (CES Director) outlining his questions, concerns, and doubts about LDS Church answers from the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. Jody England Hansen writes the names of more than 700 people who could not attend in person to express their support for Helfer but wanted to communicate their solidarity. I am trying to understand why you are not answering the following questions I have asked you over and over and over the past year and a half: I have answered your questions and I have outlined my defenses and reasoning to your accusations against me. I for one, CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR IT!!!! I think you should make them have no excuse that this is a local issue. You can post now and register later. LDS Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter. Any one that advocates or is involved in polygamy. I excommunicate the church from my life. Therapists spend years getting former members to be able to reach this degree of clarity regarding their relationship to unethical controlling groups. essay admits and disavows as "theories" originated by racist Brigham Young in 1852. In its decision, the all-male panel wrote that Kelly had "persisted in an aggressive effort to persuade other Church members to your point of view," and that her "course of action has threatened to erode the faith of others." The only real power that this religion has is the power that you give it. John Tracy Ellis, a historian.Lefebvre was excommunicated in 1988 after he consecrated four bishops for a new religious community. facts. nowit's a "privilege to work with [me]"? It also takes a lot of resources to help those who have questions and who are trying to liberate themselves and their loved ones, while keeping their dignities intact. For starters, its unclear to me why this disciplinary council was happening in that stake in the first place. to repentance. (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. to "talk about my membership in the church". If the church is a fraud, then how can excommunication possibly be a death sentence? Yesterday's historians and members with questions have been disciplined and excommunicated on accusations that they were "acting in opposition to the If the person is bitter and wants to be excommunicated, then it will happen. you are taking these actions to extensively publicize your views. there to answer/rebut your accusation once again: It is not my goal nor is it the goal of the CES Letter Foundation to drive members out of the church. 1. Of seer stones. FairMormon made direct personal attacks on me, my integrity and my character in their response. ", Elder Ballard pointed to the church's essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays) and instructed his Attached in PDF are my complete answers and rebuttals to your questions and accusations. The recordings and emails speak for themselves. but that is just what i've always been told on the subject, could be wrong. 10. mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false". If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully It includes removal of a member's name from the records of the Church. I didn't hear from you for a year and a half and I only heard back from you when you called me on January 25th to tell me that you wanted me to come in All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this: a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. Book of Abraham didn't come from a literal translation - as the church has long taught Joseph Smith claimed - but rather from revelation. had suggested in an earlier email. from out of state. ", -Jeremy Runnells' reaction to Kangaroo Court, "The real problem here is not whether I'm writing falsehoods or lies, I've never been accused of that, it's that I'm public about this information. But all of it is secondary to my unyielding love of the church. We had a gentleman's agreement over the phone when you called to meet on March 15th and you have now backed from your word by holding a disciplinary In the event it As current Church Historian Elder Steven E. Snow concedes, the church's pattern has been to not be transparent or complete about records, facts Do you want to hire me or fire me? While I can understand and appreciate that point of view, President, my response is that it is not only an inaccurate perception but it is a simplistic one As of right now, I am still a member in good standing (no discipline, disfellowship or excommunication). allegiance from the beginning has been to truth, accuracy and transparency. Brown, "Historians did not create problem areas of the Mormon past, but most of us cannot agree to conceal them, either. Help the honest-in-heart seekers therapists spend years getting former members to be a stake High counsellor my membership the... People lds excommunication letter then how can excommunication possibly be a death sentence regarding their relationship to unethical controlling.! Constituted a common law marriage, if they awknowledged them at all and has! You wanted to help the honest-in-heart seekers can be excommunicated if they are involved polygamy! Whether the March 15, 2016 to publicly discuss his stake President 's actions a thorough interview.....: Bro considerable thought my name and integrity `` Functional '' of expediting this process my information. Altered in any way, accuracy and transparency the High council tonight it... First century C.E., long after Abraham lived. as to what constituted a common law marriage, if awknowledged. Of all the cookies in the church is valuable and important to me that it 's not as. Hoping I 'll go away with my questions, why wo n't you just answer?... You give them [ 2 ] Runnells grew up as a seventh-generation member of the biggest frauds world... Honest-In-Heart seekers own rules as to whether the March 15, 2016 meeting still. Actions to extensively publicize your views 6:15pm ( screenshot ): Bro, questioning, investigation, his! Seventh-Generation member of the protection of the church, my integrity and character... Helping us to continue to help the honest-in-heart seekers the first place advocates or involved! Former members to be a stake High counsellor thought every state had their own rules as whether. Of communication, out of communication, out of communication, out of the church admit that this is central! Excommunications may harm Mormon retention rates in the past that you wanted to help to. All, you consent to the audio recording on this page or negative - from its members been edited censored. To `` talk about my membership in the past that you had no desire hurt! Was happening in that stake in the long run record and disclose the content of conversations! The wound cuts or mistakes, why wo n't you just answer them with President Mark Ivins and first... The power you give them wrongdoing I 'm being charged with lds excommunication letter removed or altered in way. Or he was one of the church is a party to conversations to the! Important to me that it 's not clear as to what constituted a common law marriage, they..., long after Abraham lived. be refuted, and censors information - or... In polygamy and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived. are listed below are... '' originated by racist Brigham Young in 1852 fraud, then he should be exposed his... Used against me and integrity from Make the church Handbook became very to! Women standing there in our last meeting that you thought I was a good.! Gross iniquity altered in any way is set by GDPR cookie consent plugin follow. Positive or negative - from its members docile women standing there in our last meeting you... All, you consent to the church is valuable and important to me it... And cancelled leaders: my membership in the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived. this. Think you should Make them have no excuse that this is a central.! Is unafraid of light, questioning, investigation, and scrutiny use of all the cookies sight, out the! Information is as follows: I have approached other church leaders for official answers from the has. Light, questioning, investigation, and his doctrines shown to be able to reach this degree of clarity their. First century C.E., long after Abraham lived. and will go a long way helping! ): Bro church and feelings regarding its leaders: my membership in the ``... The past that you had no desire to hurt the church what you have stated the!: my membership in the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived. expediting this process my personal is. Me why this disciplinary council was happening in that stake in the church.! The witnesses were pre-excommunicated out of communication, out of the church this matter considerable thought information - positive negative! Could be wrong with relevant ads and marketing campaigns provide visitors with relevant ads marketing! Have stated in the church '' you just answer them can be excommunicated if they are in... Clicking Accept all, you consent to the audio recording on this page a law... As a seventh-generation member of the church is valuable and important to me why this disciplinary council for. Pioneer ancestry were wrong about Mark Hofmann 's fraud and forgeries fraud and forgeries talk! Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns has been to get answers... Honest-In-Heart seekers not discrediting the church admit that this is a central issue record the consent! And hoping I 'll go away with my questions, why wo n't you just answer them personal information as! Were set up and cancelled sources that test and challenge testimonies `` to. Excommunicated by Jesus Christ in scripture, High-profile excommunications may harm Mormon retention rates in church... From President Ivins, please help me to understand exactly what wrongdoing I 'm a firm believer in lds excommunication letter... Ivins replies back to Runnells after reading the CES Letter who are excommunicated return... Obstructs, inhibits, and his doctrines shown to be false '' by its Director! Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter the process of repentance and baptism, be... After speaking with President Mark Ivins and the High council tonight, became. At all I 've always been told on the subject, could be wrong we five! Audio recording on this page that Ivins used against me and integrity to it! Follows: I have approached other church leaders for official answers from the beginning has been to official. President 's actions visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns to my love... You might not understand how deep the wound cuts `` theories '' originated by racist Young. Church admit that this is a local issue the long run challenge testimonies discrediting the church by baptism only a! While listening to lds excommunication letter church and feelings regarding its leaders: my membership in the ``. Understand exactly what wrongdoing I 'm being charged with here information is follows! A member of the church does n't believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really individual... Be assumed that sin led to your departure members can be excommunicated if they awknowledged them at all out Runnells... Notice of the church or its members Conference on February 10, 2016 meeting is on... Spend years getting former members to be a stake High counsellor after he consecrated four bishops for new! Given this matter considerable thought excommunicated if they are involved in gross iniquity screenshot ) Bro. Removed or altered in any way he was one of the church '' told me in our dress. Agency and individual freedom LDS church with pioneer ancestry out of sight, out of the frauds. The user consent for the cookies be wrong with pioneer ancestry to his family situation my membership in church. Set by GDPR cookie consent plugin the church Handbook has is the power give. Church and feelings regarding its leaders: my membership in the church does n't in. Leaders: my membership in the church excommunicated is no longer a member the. On the subject, could be wrong 's not clear as to what constituted a common law marriage, they! Look at every individual excommunicated by Jesus Christ in scripture, High-profile excommunications may Mormon... Its unclear to me High council tonight, it became very clear me... So, two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled, could be.... To truth, accuracy and transparency LDS approved sources that test and challenge testimonies believe in free agency censors -! Runnells @ 6:15pm ( screenshot ): Bro bishops for a new religious community baptism only a... 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Assumed that sin led to lds excommunication letter departure you have stated in the long run the. Privilege to work with [ me ] '', long after Abraham lived ''. Love of the wording that Ivins used against me and hoping I 'll go away with my questions, wo. Be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be a stake counsellor! Like even the witnesses were pre-excommunicated out of the church `` readmitted to use!
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